Darren McDuffie brings you Morley Robbins’ and “The Role of Iron and Copper Dysregulation In The Body”

by Morley Robbins on April 7, 2016

Darren McDuffie brings you Morley Robbins’ and “The Role of Iron and Copper Dysregulation In The Body”

Morley Robbins – www.gotmag.org You can download this show from blogtalkradio.com or Itunes (Perfectly Healthy And Toned Radio) If you download via Itunes please leave a review.

MARCH 2016


Love talk radio. Welcome you’re listening to Perfectly Healthy and Toned Radio with your host Darren Fatman McDuffie, and now prepared to get fat.

Darren:           What’s cracking peeps, Darren McDuffie here alias Fatman, helping you become perfectly healthy and toned. Welcome back to another episode and the episode is brought to you by Imafatman.com and I keep promising to write a new blog, and I have not begun to write a new blog but I think I’ll have something up here pretty soon, within the next couple of days I have a topic that has hit me up for those of that may have been looking at my videos, you would have noticed there’s been a change and talk about that a little bit more on the blog post that I’m doing.  I just think with the health and wellness stuff that, I think every think has pretty much been done and there needs to be a different aspect, different outlook, or a new prospective, every things been pretty much done, there needs to be a new outlook to take on health and wellness, and that what I’ve kind of done and I will explain that a little bit more when I put my new blog out. So go to imthefatman.com give me to Friday maybe even next week until I can get that blog post up. So what else is going on? I just kind of got to get acclimated to this one-hour time skip, one hour time jumping forward or jumping ahead or whatever you want to call it, it’s really kind of throwing me off, but I guess you get used to this after maybe a week or so, it kind of reminds me when I used to live in Sacramento California, and I was moved out there and you have to get used to that three-hour, being three hours behind and I was from the East Coast and I had to remember how to, 3 hours getting used to that.  It took me a while it took me about a month to get just acclimated to those three hours.  So I guess this will take me maybe another couple of days to get acclimated and I don’t know everybody else, people love this time of year I actually prefer being an hour behind and getting night at a decent hour maybe 7 o’clock, 8 o’clock whatever, so but it’s something you got to deal with.

Tonight we should have a really good show for you were going to be interviewing Morley Robbins, this is Morley’s second time on the show and I’m waiting for him to call in. We will be talking a little bit more and we’re going to go beyond Magnesium tonight, so we will talk a little bit about Magnesium but there’s some things and some research that Morley’s been doing where we’re actually going to be talking a little bit more I think we’re going to be talking a little bit about Iron, we’ll be talking some about Copper, and of course will get a little Magnesium in there and maybe even a little bit of some think so will be talking a little bit about minerals. If you have not please go back to the show, last week show, I believe it was last Wednesday I interviewed Dr Laurie Steelsmith, about great sex naturally, and that was a really good show and a lot of people were listening to that show, and I’ll just talking about some of the problems that women have, and also men have when it comes to just getting over the hump so to speak, when it comes to your sex drive, why some women are fatigued and tired all the time. Really enlightening show so if get a chance just go back and listen to that show and if you have not checked out my you tube channel, that channel is fat body BC, fat like fat man and I do a lot of street videos on there, where are just getting some of my thoughts out as I walking in the morning and giving you a lot of positive things mental tweaks and things that you can do in order to be able to change your life. A lot of people out here are not happy. Many of us are living our lives day-to-day, kind of like, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the dunking doughnut commercial where the guy meets himself at the door but that’s how we are living our lives. A lot of people just living there life’s like that just unhappy they have dreams but they don’t know how to pursue those dreams or they’re fearful some people have that fear of failure, some people have that fear of success, but it’s all about mindset it’s all about just moving forward and getting the right thoughts in your mind and being able to just get your head right and getting in the right place and know that whatever you can dream whatever you can imagine you can achieve and all you need to do is look at your front door, look at some of these Internet marketers who are making a ton of money and living life by their own rules. They pretty much set up a business around their lifestyle they want to lead.  And that’s what you doing there’s nothing any different, they are not doing anything different than you done it’s all about again getting in that mindset and getting in control. I think this is Morley on the switchboard before I get in on I want to read his bio, because I think the last time he come on we went reading bios.

At the hospital executive for over 30 years Morley Robbins became disenchanted with the role revolving door of these mentality illness maintenance enterprises. He has dedicated the remainder of his career to saving one starfish at a time, by coaching clients how to eat real food, and thereby facilitating the process of natural healing. Morley is a health futurist certified wellness coach, a certified nutrition educator, and a functional diagnostic nutritionist, Morley Robbins welcome to Perfectly Healthy and Toned Radio how are you tonight man?


Morley:           I’m doing great, how are you?

Darren:           I’m doing fabulous man good to connect with you again, I had you on I think you’re pretty much like in my first five or six shows that I ever did and that was back in 2013 I believe I started showing in April 2013, so it’s been quite some time and I know that you’ve been busy.

Morley:           so we kind of invented each other, right?!?

Darren:                       Yeah, I discovered you through our Shaun show, a couple of years ago and when I started my show I was just like let me get him on and I know we like to speak, and your one of those people that I would say that are both entertaining as well is informative and there’s not a lot of people out there that are like you so I am glad that you came back. Morley:           Well thank you for having me. I’m looking forward to this, the chat that were going to have this evening.

Darren:           Normally prepare for a show and I have a ton of questions, but I wanted this to be what I would call a freestyle where we just talk about different things and I know that you’re way beyond Magnesium right now, so kind of maybe wanted to talk about that but pick your brain, about some other things because doing some research online before the show I noticed that you had your hand in a lot of different pots so to speak. They tell us what you’ve been doing since 2013 because you been doing a lot, quite a bit of stuff Morley.

Morley:           Yeah it seems like a lot of water over the dam. Because when we talked I think I’d just started out of the Mag group, the Magnesium Advocacy Group. When I first started it, I didn’t even know what Facebook was when I started it,  so I thought if I could just get a couple hundred people to pay attention to what I had to say, that would be really cool and blew passed that pretty quickly and then I thought I’d shoot for a number that was on Schindler’s list there was 1200 people on his list that would be kind of a  fun number to get to, and we blew past that and then I thought maybe I need to stretch a little bit, so I’m thinking bigger so I set the goal to get to 50,000 and got there this week’s, so I thought, what the hell we’re going to go all the way, my goal now is 12 million people.

Darren:           Wow

Morley:           So l figure I’ll do my part to try and ding the universe. But, what has occurred to me over the last several years is I’ve become much more active with my wellness coaching also much more active with my educational activities and obviously my primary channelling is Facebook and the group that I started has now spawned I think probably, maybe six or seven groups that have spun out from mag which is great.  It brings a bit more sanity to the Facebook forum, I think people are really appreciating the level of information that is out there and really as you know my focus is getting down to the mineral foundation which is somewhat different than most people and am also much more willing to challenge the status quo, unlike a lot of practitioners who are defending some sort of code of education or code of thinking.  I don’t have one on making it up as I go along.  What I really hold myself to is, I like to tell the truth, and it really helps me complete and it really helps me defend the truth and I’ve also by the grace of the good Lord and the universe sources out there.  I’ve had the opportunity mow to get five books published and that come by way by very satisfied client in Australia who decided that what people needed to hear what I had it to say.  So she took it upon herself to basically take what I was saying on Facebook and she turned into a book and she said will this help you and I was like OMG and so she basically done that five times over.

Darren:           Is that Genelle? I think I saw her name on the books?

Morley:           Genelle Young she is amazing work horse, has a house full of kids and she helps her husband in his business and its just, where she finds the time I don’t know and I don’t ask. But, all I know is she’s a tireless champion and an absolute angel on this planet, it’s been wonderful to work with her and have her transform these what I call blah blah blah, and turned it into, I think calling them a book is a bit of a stretch so we’ll call them books just for fun.  And they help people understand what my logic is, where I’m coming from and help people understand what’s playing in the conventional book, is two very different worlds, as you know.

 Books available at: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=morley+robbins or ebooks: www.gotmag.org/ebooks

Darren:           Yeah, let’s for those people that might not have listened to a previous show on you, I would just encourage them to go back and listen to the first show I did with Morley about Magnesium but let’s just do a bit of a refresher course on Magnesium because there are still a lot of people out there, who are not taking Magnesium, I just got on I was using Carolyn Dean’s ReMag, liquid Magnesium Ionic Magnesium, and then I found another substitute on Amazon on which was a little bit, Carolyn Dean her stuff is great, but you know you’re paying 30 some odd bucks for Magnesium and then I found a substitute on Amazon, which is a little bit cheaper, but I found for me specifically that I’m not a pill person I try to stay away from pills as much as I can, and I like the liquid stuff because it is readily absorbable, and I know there’s a lot of people that are taking bodybuilding supplements, and are taking Magnesium in pill form, and are taking other pills may be taking prescription medications, which I wanted to ask you about is well with Magnesium because I know that, I think that that depletes Magnesium, but let’s go over a little refresher course on Magnesium and why it is so important Morley.


Morley:                       Absolutely, so the way I look at it is there are three things you need every day, air, water, and Magnesium. You can’t imagine going a day without air, you can get away with maybe three or four minutes at most without breathing, and you can probably go three or four days without water, and you can go quite a while without Magnesium but what can a pop-up is a whole bunch of symptoms and people are unaware of that reach of that mineral in the body. In part because it is a lot of confusion about it and a lot of, I’ll be polite, disinformation. But, when people do get Magnesium into their sites they will typically read that it’s a really important mineral for around 300 enzymes.  And what people need to know is where that number “300” comes from.  It was from a professor of physiology from Harvard, his name was Bert Valley, MD ( http://www.fa.hms.harvard.edu/about-our-faculty/memorial-minutes/v/bert-lester-vallee/) and he had an interest in Magnesium and someone once asked him, “so Dr Valley how many enzymes does Magnesium in influence?” He said, “I don’t know maybe around 300.” And that became Internet legend, it has ALSO become scientific legend. Well couple of years ago as he decided to study this mineral more closely, he discovered what is called the Magnesome, it turns out there is 3,751 proteins (ie enzymes) that will not work unless Magnesium is present. (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/Magnesiums-importance-far-greater-previously-imagined) So I think that’s a pretty significant number, the next highest number would be Copper weighing in at around 300 and the order of magnitude of Magnesium is obviously the order is higher than any other mineral. The flip side of that though is that Magnesium is very easily lost to “Stress!”, so I’ve coined the phrase Magnesium burn rate, so when people are thinking about, you know the project that they’ve got due, or that they’re moving their home, or someone in their families passed away recently, you need to be aware that all of those are opportunities to burn up Magnesium.  And I’ve called it the Magnesium burn rate.  That’s what “Stress!” is. “Stress!” burns up Magnesium.  And these days of just “Stress!” intense we’re all under we need an ongoing supply of Magnesium, because we constantly shedding it throughout the day, particularly when we go to the bathroom, it comes out through our urine. So it is very important to be mindful of that. The tragedy of the human body is that, when you lose Magnesium it leads to you losing even more Magnesium, because it is like there’s a ratchet effect, and so as we begin to lose Magnesium, our field of vision begins to get cloudy it’s like where wearing night vision binoculars. Everything seems brighter and bigger than it really is. Which leads to more Magnesium loss, which then affects all these enzymes obviously needing Magnesium.  And the easiest way to begin to defuse the “Stress!” is to add Magnesium. What people typically do they think of different ways to deal with “Stress!” release, there’s people that do yoga, or they meditate, or they read or they exercise, there are many different ways to bring “Stress!” release.  But there’s only one way to change and improve the “Stress!” response and that’s biological, you’ve got to bring Magnesium back into the organism. It’s well chronicled in the research, it is well established fact. Emily Deans is a practising psychologist in Boston she calls Magnesium the ‘Chill Pill’. And she’s absolutely right. The wonderful supplement and mineral can help people calm down. She has a wonderful article by the way and people should look at up it’s called the ‘Chill Pill.’ It’s a great overview of why Magnesium is so important, especially when you’re feeling very “Stressed!” out. 18.09

Darren:           Yep. When I think about “Stress!” I always think about adrenals and maybe a week or two ago I had Dr Maggie Loather on and will talking about adrenal fatigue and one of the things that she mentioned was Magnesium, and it’s one of those things that you really need to have too have good adrenal function.  How important is that Magnesium, for keeping that Magnesium burn rate down when it comes to your adrenals since they’re handling or are they putting out the cortisol when it comes to the “Stress!”?

Morley:           Yeah, that’s a great question. The endocrine glands, contrary to what most practitioners will tell you, the endocrine glands are ruled by minerals, but they make hormones, and so one of the master points of axis in the body is the hypothalamus, pituitary, adrenal axis, and that the primary mechanism by which we respond to “Stress!”  The adrenals, there is a hot wire between the hypothalamus and the adrenals, and so when we’re under pressure it’s the adrenals that take it on the chin, and the minerals that rule the adrenal glands, are sodium and Magnesium.  It’s actually the ratio of sodium to Magnesium, and what you want in a heath healthy adrenal gland is four parts sodium and one part Magnesium. And, that 4 to 1 ratio is what allows us to respond to the crisis and then put us back into our ‘parasympathetic state’, cause when we have a crisis we go into what is called a ‘sympathetic state’ and that’s when all sorts of changes begin to take place in the body.  All that worked great when we had real mountain lions chasing us and that was a real threat, and we would deal with that and then that mountain lion would be gone or dead or whatever, and we would begin to calm down.  Now because we’re in society where there’s all sorts of paper lions, and all sorts of “Stressors!” and we don’t have the time to calm down and the adrenals never get that chance for recovery, and that is what Magnesium great gifts is there is no concept of recovery.  So when you think about a muscle contraction, after a contraction you’ve got to relax, you’ve got to get recovered, which Magnesium enables that to happen, so when you actually get down to a cellular level, it’s actually Magnesium that allows calcium to activate the bosses Cell.  Then Magnesium comes back in to allow recovery, and that the role that it plays with adrenals is to allow recovery and helping to facilitate the process that the adrenals are in charge of as they sit on top of the kidneys. 

So the Magnesium is very important, what people have to be careful of is very often people will get really “Stressed!” out, they get too “Stressed!” out, and they will face what is called burnout. And then they’ll read an article or hear an interview like this talking about how Magnesium is important for adrenals and fatigue and they will run out and they will start flooding the body with Magnesium, but ignore the sodium side of it, what’s important is that make sure that you’re supporting the adrenals because they sodium need for functions, with sodium and potassium, and what I’d typically recommend for people is that if you’re facing burnout and you want to start working with Magnesium at the very least do what is called the adrenal cocktail and take half a cup of fresh great squeezed orange juice, a quarter of a teaspoon of sea salt, a quarter of a teaspoon of cream of Tartar, mix that together and drink mid-morning and or mid-afternoon so that you’re nourishing the adrenals with the wholefood vitamin C that you need with the fresh squeezed orange juice, don’t do it with Tropicana because it’s no good, freshly squeezed orange juice to get the vitamin C, then the minerals that can be found in the sea salt and the cream of Tartar, you have a great way to balance the adrenals that provide the support that they need in order to restore the Magnesium that is so will essential for the client to work effectively.


Darren:           One of the things that comes to mind when you start talking about sodium and potassium balance is blood pressure, there are a lot of people that are having problems or have had problems with blood pressure, mainly hypertension, and how important is that Magnesium to them? And I wanted you to, I was doing some research for the show and I wrote this quote down on, I come across another youtube video, and you said 98% of high blood pressure is considered idiopathic, so expand on that quote and then talk a little bit about how important Magnesium might be in that, the blood pressure.

Morley:           Yeah, it is really key. The source of the 98% comes by way of a very famous clinician whose name is Russ Jaffee, MD, PhD. http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10632 He runs the supplement company, PERQUE, LLC. Russ is a very gifted practitioner, and did his training at NIH and we’ve become good friends and colleagues, he’s been very influential in terms on my understanding and the subtlety of these minerals.  And the balance of sodium and potassium is really key but what people need to understand is that the Magnesium, the way I refer to it as the conductor of the cellular orchestra of minerals So if you’re ever been to the orchestra or if you see a movie or you’ve seen it on TV, you know before the conductor comes on stage there’s all sorts of chaos, and when the conductor comes out, they get up on the podium and they tap their baton a couple of times, and then there is silence, and then the conductor raises the baton, and beautiful music comes out, and that’s the role that Magnesium place inside the cell.  And the question that has eluded me and I think a lot of people is we know that Magnesium is leaving because of “Stress!” but are there any other particular reasons why we might be “Stressed!” from a physiological standpoint as opposed to just an emotional standpoint and what has emerged is my understanding of the whole dynamic particularly as it relates to blood pressure, and I will come back to that, is that Magnesium has a very dynamic relationship with Iron in our body. 

And Iron and Magnesium are biological antagonist, and Iron is very effective at forcing Magnesium out of the cell, and forcing Magnesium out of enzyme function. What I am discovering is that the real bad guy inside our body is Iron that is not being properly regulated because of lack of a key protein that is made in the liver and that protein is called to Ceruloplasmin (Cp). It’s very likely that your listeners have never heard of it. It’s also very likely that very few practitioners know what this protein is, and the few that may know about it, think of it as a “molehill,” but what I’m going to emphasize tonight is I think that this protein/enzyme is, in fact, “Mt. Everest,” and is essential in our body, in part because of its ability to regulate Iron in the kidneys, and that’s just ONE area. It’s helping to regulate (“mobilize”) Iron all over the body, but the dynamic of blood pressure is very widespread as you well know, and the reason why it is idiopathic is that no one’s been able to think outside the box and ask: “Why does Magnesium keep getting knocked out of the Renal System?” The loss of Magnesium allows for dysregulation between sodium and potassium.  Why are Cortisol and Aldosterone getting knocked out of control and what’s CAUSING these two key hormones to go into dysregulation.   What I am coming to understand in the research, is that it’s Iron-induced Oxidative “Stress!” This oxidative process affects different parts of the anatomy based upon where people carry their ““Stress!”  There are many people that carry the “Stress!” in their kidneys.  I don’t know why but they do, there’s a lot of people that carry “Stress!” in the heart, or their joints, or their brain, or their stomach.  And when people have symptoms of chronic nature it’s because that’s where they carry their “Stress!” and are not able to metabolise the metabolic changes that are occurring in a tissue because of the shortage of minerals being able to re-regulate or overcome the imbalances that are taking place.  Does that make sense?

Darren:           Yeah, that makes a lot of sense because I know, from what I’ve gone over without aldosterone and all that, the other hormones but aldosterone to me was the one that was more closely associated with blood pressure, and I was all like will what makes that get out of whack.  You kind of just gave me an explanation as to why that might get out of whack.  Going back to Iron, you have men that seem to carry Iron efficiently, and women seem to have Iron deficiency.  So why is that what makes the female body so different from a male body because what I’ve discovered is my girlfriend and I we both give blood regularly and she’s just kind of tipping the line when it comes to having enough Iron in her blood to be able to give blood, to be able to donate. But I’m wondering if that is because, is that a Magnesium deficiency, she doesn’t have enough Magnesium or what’s going on there?


Morley:                       Great question. One of the great myths of this planet is that people are being trained to think that they are Copper toxic and Iron anaemic. And that’s a very popular concept that exists on the Internet and it exists in the mind of most practitioners, who deal with this type of issues.  And I think it’s important to dispel and create some basis of truth that there is 60 times more Iron in the body than there is Copper.  There is an enormous amount of Iron in our body.  And there’s a difference between the amount of Iron in a woman’s body then a man’s body, there is about 3500 mg of Iron in a woman’s body and is about 4000 mg in a guy’s body.  And this idea that we’re Copper toxic and Iron deficient is not true and in fact I think it’s just the opposite.  In fact most people have very low levels of bio available Copper and too much unusable Iron and I’ll explain why there is a difference between how a woman versus man carry it. The other thing that is important to understand about Iron is that there is no active mechanism to get rid of excess Iron in the human body other than blood loss.  That’s the only way that we’re designed to get rid of excess Iron so going back in time, guys were involved in battles and women had their monster claw, and then battle stopped, and then men in fact have big problems with Iron and so do women.  There is different dynamics that has taken place, the woman is having a regular menstrual cycle and that is actually a gift because it enables them to have a constant process of losing the excess Iron.  Again the idea that we don’t have enough is not true. From the time that we’re about 12 years old to this time that we die we are adding Iron every day because of our diet. And that’s a fact. We live in a very Iron centric Society.  But what most people don’t know is that in 1941 the UK and its crowned colonies called Canada, United States, Australia, and Singapore all started adding Iron to flour in 1941.  But they didn’t add organic Iron they added Iron filings which is the most toxic kind of Iron you can add. Then in 1972 they tried to increase it by a factor of two.  And 37 scientists from around the world came to Washington DC to testify and said “are you trying to kill people.” So the FDA only increased by 50%.  Then in the 1980s they added high fructose corn syrup, and GMO and what people don’t know about those food additives and in part what their design to do is to lower Copper in the liver and increase Iron in the liver, which is the exact opposite of what the human body needs.  And what I know about Copper and Iron is it turns out, I’m sure a lot of your listeners have seen a ventriloquist act, you’ve probably seen a ventriloquist act, so the question is “can the ventriloquist move his own lips?”  No, the comedians got to do it right. It turns out in the human body Iron is the dummy, and Copper is the comedian.  What’s very carefully and artfully hidden in the research is that whenever there is an Iron-based enzyme there is either Copper, wholefood vitamin C, or that protein Ceruloplasmin, which has eight Copper atoms to drive it.  One of those three is hiding behind curtains, cause Iron can’t do anything in the body is Copper tells what to do.  What’s important to understand is due to not being absorbed, sorry you cannot absorb Iron unless the key protein is stimulated by Copper in your digestive track. 

You cannot make heme, the heme protein cannot be made unless you have bio available Copper. You cannot make the haemoglobin molecule unless you have bio-available Copper.  You cannot insert Iron into the centre of haemoglobin, unless the key enzyme, Ferro chelatase, is stimulated and activated by bio-available Copper. And the whole concept of Hypoxia, i.e. shortness of breath, which triggers the production of more red blood cells, well that keys off of a key enzyme, Erythropoietin, with the initials of EPO, and this Hormone is, in fact, made possible by bio-available Copper activating its production via the Adrenal Glands that sit atop the Kidneys. It sends a signal to the bone marrow to start making more red blood cells available. So all of these critical aspects of the red blood cell initiation and management, are all dependent on bio available Copper. And what happens is people go to their doctor to get their blood tests, and the doctor will use a blood marker called ferritin, which is a storage marker for Iron, which is not part of the active metabolism of Iron, it’s where Iron get stored, and they will see that it is low for a wide variety of reasons, and they’ll tell the individual that they need to take more Iron.  Never thinking about the fact, well it would be well advisable to see what more Magnesium would do, it would be well advisable to see what more wholefood vitamin C would do, which has Copper at its core.  And when I say wholefood vitamin C I’m making a major distinction between that and ascorbic acid, which is toxic to the body, particularly to the production of Ceruloplasmin.  And the third ingredient that would be worth looking at, is B vitamins especially B2, and what’s important about those three, Magnesium, wholefood vitamin C, and B2 is that all of those water-based and they can easily leave the body if you don’t need them.  When you start to give people Iron supplement its permanent.  And what the body can’t use it stores, it puts it into storage and that’s what becomes the source of oxidative “Stress!” in your liver, in your kidneys, in your adrenal glands, in your thyroid, in your brain, in your joints.  You name where you’re having a symptom and I can guarantee you that the enzyme that is in that tissue is being beat up by the rust that the unbound Iron is creating.  The part of the dynamic between men and women though, is that women have a fluctuation in their body, because of their cycle that they go through, and so their need for Magnesium, bio available Copper, and the B vitamin, is different than that for a guy. 


Darren:           Yeah, so really their telling women that they don’t have enough Iron, specifically when you go to donate blood, the truth is that they have enough but their telling them that the supposed to have too much is what I’m getting from the conversation, is that it’s all smoke and mirrors.

Morley:           That’s exactly right!!!! The distinction is that there is a major difference between Iron deficiency, which is what is in tied with Iron anaemia, there is a difference between that and Iron dysregulation.  It turns out that Iron metabolism and red blood cell metabolism are highly sophisticated programs of recycling.  The reason why the body doesn’t lose a lot of Iron is because it is being constantly recycled in red blood cells.  And that’s what’s supposed to do.  And you’ve probably if you’ve ever been in a square dance, or seen on a show, TV show, or a movie, well the square dance is very similar to what’s going on in the management of Iron, it’s a constant flow as long as the music is playing, and as long as the Barker is calling out the steps, everything is cool.  When the music stops everybody goes over to the table and they store themselves.  And that’s what happens in the human body when there’s not enough Ceruloplasmin, which is what keeps Iron in motion, it’s what normalises Iron.  And that is what is important.  And what’s happened is 150 years, doctors would measure Iron status with haemoglobin and in accurate, that is the engine of Iron metabolism.  And that’s where it at. Iron need to be in haemoglobin in order to deliver oxygen to the cell, so to support a key step in the mitochondria complex IV. That’s a very important mechanism in the body. What happened in 1972, a British Team introduced the concept of ferritin, and ferritin is a storage molecule that is found in the liver, found in the spleen, and found in the bone marrow, and each ferritin molecule holds 4500 atoms of Iron.  And that is a good thing.  If they are in those three storage areas in the liver, in the spleen, and the bone marrow.  But what they are now doing, there was only supposed to be a very small amount of ferritin in the bloodstream, and that’s what these British researchers made it very clear there’s just supposed to be a small amount, and what’s happening is modern medicine has put a spotlight on ferritin, it’s a storage protein, and the measuring peoples Iron status based on that marker and in my opinion it is very misleading, and so it’s like having a car that has engine trouble you take it to the mechanic and what you expect a mechanic to do, they’re going to open up the hood, right? What would you do have the mechanic ran into your trunk and started measuring the inside of the trunk, wouldn’t that make you a little nervous?


Darren:           Yeah.

Morley:           And that’s what’s happening. These medical mechanics are measuring the inside of the storage protein and it’s irrelevant to the engine of Iron metabolism which is all about haemoglobin, haematocrit, and this protein, introducing into this conversation, Ceruloplasmin, which is made in the liver, and it is a very important, and very dynamic part of our metabolism that is being completely blown over by conventional practitioners. 

Darren:           Let’s, I want to talk about Copper, as I found out Copper, and I found out about Copper through a different light.  I was doing some research on why we get grey hair, I’ve had, and share this with the audience, I’ve had grey hair since 16/17 years old.  Now that on 45 my hair is getting covered and I just started to researching what causes grey hair and I was reading a book one day, and in the book the gentleman mentioned Copper deficiency as one of the symptoms for grey hair, he said it comes from if you have a Copper deficiency you going to get, the white or the grey hair.  So naturally I was just trying to figure out well, what is Copper, I had never heard of Copper deficiency.  So you have a Copper deficiency where it might be causing the grey hair and then on the other end of the spectrum, I have another friend who is an FDN her name is Diane Kaser she’s an FDN like you, and she completed a video maybe a year or two ago on, she had a Copper IUD, and is there a fine line or a balance where you have that, you could have that Copper deficiency but you could also have that Copper toxicity, where women are having all these symptoms, and I believe birth control kind of stimulates the Copper to, as well.  But, I know she had Copper IUD, and she was saying how many symptoms, like she would get these irrational mood swings, and I feel like the body just prefers balance, it doesn’t want too much and doesn’t want to little, it just was to be balanced, is that the same thing with Copper?


Morley:                       Yeah, and the point I would really emphasise is, when we’re talking about, particularly these metals, particularly Copper and Iron, is the need to be bioavailable. And what’s happened is we’re all trying to take shortcuts, and get to this state of is on is off is it too much is it to little, this whole concept of bioavailable is very subtle, but profoundly important because, what happens is in a situation where someone does have a Copper IUD, or they did take birth control pills, yes there is a build-up of Copper, but what has also happened is there has not been a corresponding increase in the production of Ceruloplasmin, which is essential for working with metal.  Copper is designed to be inside Ceruloplasmin.  It’s a very unique structure inside the body that 95% of Copper in the bloodstream must be inside that protein, that’s a big deal.  Most people aren’t even close to that.  And what happens with the birth control pill is what the doctor forgot to tell the patient, and that is, the ‘pill’ does two things it causes Magnesium deficiency, and that is an absolute correct term, but there are blanks in birth control pill, there’s 5 to 7 days of blanks, I just found out a few days ago that those blanks have Iron in them.  Isn’t that interesting?  So women are being introduced to the very metal that causes the Magnesium to leave the body.  So when women have been exposed to the sources of Copper but there’s no emphasis being put on Ceruloplasmin, then the Copper appears toxic when in fact it’s very low levels of bioavailable Copper and very high levels of unusable Copper, and when that happens Ceruloplasmin cannot be made in the liver, and then, pardon my French, you’ve got a real problem with Iron because Iron goes rogue at that point.  When Iron goes rogue it doesn’t circulate the way it’s supposed to, it gets put into storage and when it goes into storage it will cause rust in that tissue.  And that rust as a formal name is called oxidative “Stress!” 

Darren:           Yes.  This just come to mind and I want to get this out before we end the show.  You have a big rush of autoimmune diseases, particularly you have a lot of women suffering from an autoimmune disease called Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, and you know is your thyroid.  One of the things that you see, is you are seeing a lot of women, I interviewed Janie Bowthorpe a couple of episodes ago maybe a month or two months ago, and she was talking about increasing Iron, and the thought of increasing Iron made me think just now, that maybe it’s just Copper it’s not the Iron is the fact that that these women don’t have enough Copper, and Iron is actually displacing the Copper but I, it goes so deep. I just had a thought and my mind works like that.

Morley:           You are on the right path thereI commend you for thinking that because that’s exactly what it is. Women do not need more Iron, they need more bio available Iron. And this idea of getting women, and if Janie hears the she’s going to freak out but that’s too bad, this idea of pushing women to get their ferritin levels up to 80 or 100 is insane. There is no other word for it. Because when you have a molecule that has 4500 atoms of Iron in it and a body that doesn’t have enough Cerulpolasmin it is a recipe for disaster.  And back to your point about the grey hair, and the Hashimoto’s, and the autoimmune diseases they all have the same issue in common it’s called oxidative “Stress!”  Its uncontrolled oxidative “Stress!”  And the principal oxidant, everyone is familiar with the antioxidant, antioxidants are vitamin A, wholefood vitamin C, and wholefood vitamin E.  Those are very powerful antioxidant, and when I say vitamin A I’m talking about retinol not the limpy bit of carotene because it takes 12 beta-carotene plus energy and zinc to make retinol but those antioxidants, those vitamins, are superseded by anti-oxidants enzymes.  And there are four granddaddy antioxidant enzymes, Ceruloplasmin is top of the list, no one ever talks about itbut it is the primary antioxidant in our blood which it’s supposed to be.  Then you have what you call superoxide dismutase, and what that does is, superoxide is an oxygen molecule which is an electron and dismutase is a stupid way of saying neutralise.  So what SOD does is it takes superoxide, which is created either naturally as part of our metabolism, or by pathogens particularly bacteria and it neutralises it, it turns into hydrogen peroxide. 


Darren:           Morley when you talk about this I get the vision of glutathione, does Copper interact glutathione?

Morley:           I’m going to get there, hang on…. We’ve got SOD neutralising the superoxide, and that turn these oxidants into hydrogen peroxide.  And there’s two enzymes that neutralises hydrogen peroxide, this catalase, and there’s glutathione.  But actually is not glutathione that’s doing the work. It’s called glutathione peroxidase.  And it turns out all three of these, but particularly SOD, CAT which is the abbreviation for catalase and GHS for glutathione.  All three of those key enzymes are dependent on bioavailable Copper.

And when there’s too much Iron in the system, you’re not able to make enough of those enzymes. And that’s where the tug-of-war is, in the body is, bioavailable Copper, when it’s residing in ceruloplasim is second to none and when you get into the literature you will find out that some people will talk about Ceruloplasim, and they’ll refer to as a transport mechanism they’ll will sort of allude to it like it’s a taxi, is transporting the Copper around the body, it’s actually not a taxi it’s a tank, and I’m sure you know the difference between a taxi and a tank. And a tank takes four guys to run the machine, but in the Ceruloplasmin tank it take 8 Coppers to run it, and when there’s eight Coppers it runs flawlessly, and it creates a lot of good for the body.  And when it is not able to be made properly, and a lot of key areas get rusty, a lot of enzymes begin to get rusty and the body doesn’t work right and what will disrupt the production of Ceruloplasmin is “Stress!”

In one of the key components in making Ceruloplasmin got 1056 amino acids. And 8 Coppers,  and it’s got to be processed in a very special way so that it works right.  And what holds all this in place is Magnesium. And so when we are under “Stress!” guess what happens.  The pH of the body changes, Magnesium hits below and suddenly that protein Ceruloplasmin, which has an enzyme to it called Ferrerodase its unable to manage the Iron the way it’s supposed to and that’s the epicentre for symptoms, and it’s the origin of all chronic disease that people are struggling with everything from autoimmune disease, to cancer, to heart disease, to neurodegenerative disease, all of this is brought to us by Iron induced oxidative “Stress!”.  There is a major warfare on the body between Iron and Magnesium, and that’s how my thinking has evolved over the last three years.


Darren:           yeah. You work with people on a daily basis how much of this is involved, you just mentioned the basis of all chronic disease.  When you’re working with people and you get this Copper dysregulation, you confront this and you get it balanced. What have you seen?

Morley:           Amazing changes. There is an entire Facebook called Morley Robbins testimonies page. Again I think it was Genelle Young who did this, she wanted to have a site where people go and say “what is this guy talking about?”  Some people call me the Bozo from the Bayou, and that’s fine but I don’t care what people call me, just follow my suggestions and it’s not my protocol.  I’m basing this on Mother Nature.  This is how we meant to work.  As a species and all of this artificial, synthetic, insane stuff that we’re exposed to whether as medications or supplements that come by way of big Pharma, and most supplements do come by way of big Pharma, that stuff doesn’t work, and there are profound changes that people experience.  Particularly now that people are beginning to wake up to the reality that in fact they are Iron toxic and no one ever told them that, and it’s right there in the blood work when you do the right blood panel. You really begin to tease out what is really going on in this body and the whole dynamic in the misunderstanding of the engine of Iron metabolism versus the trunk of Iron metabolism, that’s the fine line between sanity and insanity.  You really begin to understand the interplay between Magnesium, bioavailable Copper, Iron, and the protein Ceruloplasmin, it begins to create completely different basis of healing that people have control over and they can begin to see that melt away. 

Darren:           I’m thinking why you’re talking and it just makes a lot of sense, I’m seeing, and had two family members who, maybe three or four family members who have had dementia, and I have an uncle who is going through that right now, my grandmother had it, my great aunt had it, and it just makes total sense the amount of stuff that we’re seeing and science doesn’t seem to have an answer for it.  Look at all the autoimmune diseases you have, I already mention Hashimoto’s, multiple sclerosis, you have psycho doses, you have all of these different things that are autoimmune in the common denominator seems to be this whole Copper dysregulation, and the fact that we don’t get enough Copper or we’re Copper toxic so to speak.

Morley:           Right. We don’t have enough bioavailable Copper to run the antioxidant enzymes and that leads to a build-up of unusable Iron, and I can assure you that the origin of all neuro degeneration, whether we’re talking Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, MS, Blue Garris disease even the autistic spectrum disorder, all of that is brought to us by Iron induced oxidative “Stress!” playing out in different facets of the neuro tissue.  But its right there and the leading researchers know for a fact that that is the origin, and this idea that we don’t really understand it is not true.  Because we actually do understand. People can contact me, I’ve got dozens and dozens of articles that can back up everything that I’ve said tonight.  And that’s fine I don’t mind people challenging me, but I think it’s time that people wake up to the reality of what’s really going on inside their body, there is not a person on this planet that doesn’t need more Magnesium, and I would go as far to say that most people on this planet has far too much Iron that’s not usable in their body because their Copper is not working right.  There is a whole list of things that needs to be done but the point is, people need to realise that these so-called medical conditions they’ve got, is what I call ‘science fiction’, and my position is ‘there is no such thing as medical disease, there is only metabolic dysfunction that is caused by mineral dysregulation’ that is triggered by a moronic diet that we live with in this country.  And it is ignored by physicians, who I call mineral denialist.  Because they don’t understand the mineral level of how the body works, their practising what I call with ‘Newtonian Medicine’, what I focus on is quantum healing and getting down to the level of the minerals and the atoms, and that the mechanism to activate the enzymes and that is a concept that is very foreign to them. 

Darren:           Yeah.  Two last questions for you Morley one would be, give your opinion on this statement because, when I started in nutrition I came across Linus Pauling and I going to paraphrase I’m not even sure it’s the exact quote, I don’t know if this quotes real, you don’t know what’s on the Internet, but the quote I come across was Linus Pauling said “Every illness can be traced back to a mineral deficiency.” and then the second part would be how do we test this stuff? A lot of people will listen to the show and then and then go and try and find some supplement for Copper, and really don’t know they need it, or if they do need what should they actually be looking for?


Morley:           Right. Linus Pauling did not say that. And that’s been verify by the Linus Pauling Institute. But that does not mean that it’s not true, I think it may have been someone like Norman sheerly and it somehow was transposition of who actually said it.  The point is I think this statement is accurate, I know for a fact was not Linus Pauling who said it. As a relate testing what I’ve done is I got into this work focusing on minerals, and focusing on the hair test it is a very powerful tool to help people understand what the mineral dynamics is in their body.  What I have now added to that is a very pacific, I have a series of blood panel that I’ve got, but one in particular what it looks at, is magnesium red blood cell, it looks at Zinc and Copper and Ceruloplasmin. It also looks at four Iron markers to get a much more comprehensive view of what’s actually going on inside the body as it relates to Iron, so that I can have a much more balanced understanding of this dynamic.  Anyone that you know, or anyone that happens listen to this program, who relies just on ferritin only blood test as an indication of Iron simply does not get.  And there’s no one that should rely on a storage only test for vitamin D, knowing that they use THS only assessment for thyroid function, what I am adding to that list is ferritin only blood test, are irresponsible.  They are not indicative of what’s going on in the body.  So people are welcome to go to my website if they want to order the blood test, its gotmag.org and there’s a link there for work with us and that will direct them to what steps they need to take, you can order the kit and what have you. They can be given the information where to get the blood tests if they are interested.  I have a regular ongoing client base as you probably know, they are all over the globe much to my delight but also my surprise.  These are concepts that can be tested.  These are concepts that can be managed.  These are concepts that can be improved with proper diet, proper minerals, and vitamin supplementation.  And just enough patience and time to allow the body to work.


Darren:           Yeah, what was your website again and I know you have the ‘Magnesium Advocacy Group’ on Facebook, I’m a member of that one, and then you mentioned that Morley testimonials that’s on Facebook as well?

Morley:          Yep, Morley Robbins Testimonials, that is on Facebook.  And then my website is gotmag.org and people can go there, there’s links to my books, if people want to do that or they can order the coaching on the tab work with us.

Darren:           Morley this has been an insightful conversation this is what I would call a nutritional nerd conversation. LOL. it might be a bit over people’s heads and I may have to go back and listen to this pod cast, and you know, a lot of times just to get what you’re saying but it makes a lot of sense to me from listening to you that something is missing because the body works holistically and there’s certain things, like more of this and not enough of that it just makes a ton of sense. From what I’ve seen is probably at the root of a lot of ailments.

Morley:           Well I appreciate the chance to bang my gums, and beat my chest it’s very kind of you to give me this opportunity. But I think if people will take the time to listen to what we have been talking about, and click on my website there are 22 articles about Iron and Iron dysregulation, and how this is causing magnesium problems that people are having with issues behind chronic disease. There’s 22 different blogs on my Facebook page if they take the time to read that it will help them rethink what their condition is really and what they can do to begin to address it. The difficulty is that most practitioners, including most alternative practitioners do not understand this Copper Iron dynamic is taking place and if they do they have a backwards. An important thing is to understand we need more bio available Copper and we need Iron that can be made usable in the body.  People do not have a shortage of Iron, the problem is it’s not usable from lack of that protein that makes it so.

Darren:           Yeah, it makes total sense, I’m actually going to email you because I have some questions for you outside of the show.  But thank you for being on Morley I learned a lot and it’s always good to listen to you because you kind of like me you’re one of those that like to dig and dig dig. And I look forward to your answers. If there’s something I want to know I’ll keep digging until I find the answer.  And it was interesting that I had just looked at this book you know maybe about two weeks ago and they were talking about Copper deficiency and grey hair, and I was like wow Morley knows a lot about this stuff so, man thank you for being on and will have to have you back on in the future and just do another pod cast on this because again I think this is something that people need to know, and need to probe deeper into just more than 30 minutes or so.

Morley:           Yeah, I would be happy to do it and when you do reach out to me, make sure you tell me what that title is, so I can make sure I know about it, and I’ll be able to have a look at it for this process.

Darren:           Yeah, I don’t want to mention it on air but actually I’m going to having on the show so I’ll tell you what the book is when I email you. Thanks Morley have a good night man I really appreciate.

Morley:           Thanks a lot. Thanks for your time.



For More Podcasts check out “Braggin About Maggie” at www.gotmag.org/ebook or paperback on amazon



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